More on investing in copper pennies

Heck why not one more post about pennies. Yesterday I did a pretty long post extolling the virtues of pre 82 pennies as a simple and small investment. Again I want to restate this isn’t a “way to get rich” but it is a really cool and fun little inflation hedge and about as risk free and low cost as any form of investing has a right to be.

Anyway I found a really cool little resource that reinforces my point that 95% copper pennies that are still in circulation are a pretty hot little item to set aside right now.

The site is called CoinFlation and I have put it into my book marks so I can always find it in the future. One of the coolest tools is a coin melt value calculator that tells you the exact value of coins when you melt them down. They have two calculators one for silver coins (pre 65 dimes, quarters, halves, etc) and one for coins currently in circulation. To give you an idea of how “valuable” pennies made prior to 1982 are. I decided to run all the comparisons at a 100 dollar face value. So lets look at some of the out of circulation silver coins that you can’t find today out side of a coin shop, some of today’s other coins and their “real value” and then compare them to the humble copper penny. Of course this is “raw

• 100 dollars face value of silver dimes, silver quarters or silver half dollars is worth $1017.81 at today’s current metal prices. They are all the same because each represented a fraction of an ounce of silver as in 1/10th, 1/4th, 1/2 ounce etc. So these coins represent about a 917% return of investment just in metal value for those who had the forsight to pull them from circulation in the 60s, 70s and for a bit of the 80s when they were still around.

• Now if you took 100 dollars worth of today’s quarters you end up with about $18.33 in raw metal value or an 81.7% “instant loss”.

• How about 100 dollars worth of today’s pennies (anything minted after 1982) you get a whopping $58.80 in raw value or a 41.2% “instant loss”.

• What about 100 dollars worth of Kennedy Half Dollars? Everyone loves those right? Same formula as the modern quarter. Melt em down and you get $18.33 in raw metal value or an 81.7% “instant loss”.

• What about the nickel? There is a lot of copper in a nickel and it is a thick coin so it does ok. Try a raw value of $113.75 or an instant return on investment of 13.7% Perhaps storing nickels ain’t a bad idea either?

So how does our humble penny add up against all this? Today’s metal prices for copper and zinc put the value of 100 dollars in pre 82 pennies in raw metal at $193.61. That is easy math an instant ROI of 93.61%! Sure the penny isn’t currently holding pace with those old silver coins and it will never catch up to them. As copper goes up you can bet silver will to. Yet that is my point you can’t just go around picking up a dozen silver dimes a day any more but you can pick up a good amount of pennies from prior to 82.

Sure even with copper at say 5 - 6 dollars a pound you would need a lot of pennies to be worth even say 10,000 dollars. Yet just think about it, each day you sort and toss some into a jar. Painless and foolproof, what do you have to loose other then a bit of space?

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Advice from the broke is useless

I know this seems so obvious, never take advice on money, investing and business from the broke. The problem is it is not always easy to recognize the “broke”, when I refer to people that are broke I am not saying they live in a “poor house”, make very little money and eat mealy porridge. I simply mean they are broke as in more money goes out that comes in.

Broke people live next door to you, they live in neighborhoods that are both two steps down and two steps up from yours. Broke people are everywhere, most of the people in America are broke by my definition. They are the people in huge 50K dollar SUVs that they justify as being needed “to cart the kids around in”. Jeez, how big are these kids? They have beautiful homes, nice furniture and perhaps even lawn care service. Many have vacation homes or time shares or other true luxuries. How can I call these people broke?

Easy they are broke, they have very little to no surplus cash flow, they save next to nothing other then what perhaps goes automatically into a 401K (Thank God for that at least). They have TVs on credit, cars on credit, pools on credit, some have charged the very paint on their walls and the sofa they sit on. Cut off their income for 30 days and most would loose every thing they have. They are broke because they have no “wealth” only things, stuff and the appearance of wealth.

Such people are always big talkers. They tell you “now is the time to buy” or that “that business deal seems risky” and other wonderful nuggets of advice. They tell you how great that new SUV is, how wonderful owning a plasma TV is and they always have investment advice for you.

My advice is, don’t take their advice. If you follow the advice given by most people it will lead you down the same path they are on. In other words take advice from your uncle who has that beautiful house, nice cars and kids in top schools and you may just get their yourself. Yet you will probably do it “his way” (the normal way) and be in debt up to your eyeballs and working into extended retirement years just to pay the interest on all of it.

So where do you go for advice? To the successful, to the millionaires next door. Look for the guy that pays cash for everything, the woman that has a 6 figure job and a 150,000 dollar house and a sensible car along with a nice savings account, a good team of advisers and a very fat and growing Roth IRA. These people are not “broke” they could go with out work 6 months to a year with just a bit of sacrifice if they had to.

How do you find them? There are many of us, just talk to people and you will know right away.

• The broke talk about how expensive gas is and the wealthy talk about how efficient their cars are.
• The broke think rich people are “over paid” and “thieves” and the wealthy think the rich are “generous” and “admirable”
• The broke shop for “deals” on consumer goods, the wealthy look for “deals” on real estate and investments
• The broke think cars are status symbols and the wealthy think cars are a “necessary expense”
• The broke talk about “saving money” by spending it, the wealth talk about budgeting and investing the savings

Just realize it is not income that separates the broke from the wealthy. In my town I can show you people with a household income of 100K or more that are “broke” and I can show you some with a household income of say 70K that are very “wealthy”.

Just remember this and consider it when anyone advises you how to spend your money, what to buy, how to invest and on what is important or what is safe vs risky. Now I am not saying that no broke person ever gives any decent advice. Sure many times they do, just don’t let the broke counter your instincts or justify what you know to be a mistake for short term gratification.

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Pay the right price for you home

This post is not about setting your budget for a mortgage, taxes, insurance, etc. That is a number you need to come up with before you start even looking for a home. You need to determine what you can afford then follow this golden rule, SPEND LESS then you can afford.

What this post will do is help you find the right home for the right price with in your means. So let’s begin.

First, write down what you want this includes,

• What area you want to live in
• Your price range
• Bedrooms, Bathrooms, Garage, etc

The typical things you are looking for in a home.

Second, start to form your own idea of what is available in your area. Cruise over to Realtor.com and search properties. Drive the neighborhoods you are interested in and get prices on the houses with signs in their yards. Do your home work before you speak to a realtor. Visit new model homes, get pricing on everything. Learn what homes are like just above and below your target budget. If you are going to spend about 150K, then look at homes in the 90-250K range. Learn your market before you even think about spending a penny. Take as long as you need to do this well. Write down homes you could see yourself buying and see how long they take to sell at their price point.

Third, call a few different real estate agents (get referrals if you can). Talk to at least three, tell them exactly what type of home you want to buy, the neighborhoods you want to look it and the schools you want, etc. Be very specific. Tell the agent that you know about the phrase, “buyers are liars” and find it offensive! (I will explain buyers are liars at the end of this article). Then ask the agent what price range you should expect to have to pay to get that type of home.

In other words DO NOT let your agent start the whole interview by asking you what you can afford, you tell an agent you have a 125-150K budget and odds are you will find yourself in a 160K home! Remember you now know your market and you should get a number back from your agent that matches what you already know. Many times the number is much higher and this tells you that your agent is NOT LISTENING TO YOU, they are not understanding you. In many instances they are therefore not right for you.

Never let your agent call the shots control the relationship from the get go. They are experts, they are supposed to know more then you your preshopping will tell you if that is the case. Just because they know more then you does not mean they know what you want. Never let an agent say crap to you like, “you don’t what this” or “you really need to consider paying a bit more”. My accountant knows more then me, my financial advisors do to. Yet they work for me and are employed at my pleasure, I do not let them forget it.

Your agent may want you to sign a buyers agent contract. Never sign one that forces you to buy a home via them, one that protects you from going direct to the seller is fine. So is one that requires that if you buy a house they show you that your work with them on it but stay away from those that want a 180 day exclusive agreements. Explain you will be fair, that you want the right place for the right place and will give them the time they need to get the job done. Yet be clear they work for you and reserve the right to fire them at any time.

Fourth, choose the agent you get along with best that was at least close to the price range you expected to hear when you answered the question. Now take your maximum budget (lets call it 150K but it could be anything based on where you live and your income level, etc) and cut it by 10%! So that would in our example mean down to 135K and now your mission is to find a home that compares well with others selling at 150K. You can ALMOST always do this. Not in every market and not all the time but in most instances you can always find a deal like this.

Fifth, when you find the home you want to buy make your offer at least 10% below the asking price. So on this 135K home you now offer about 123K! All the seller can do is say no, you can always offer more, what do you think is going to happen? Do you think they might be so offended as to raise the price to 180? The only risk is someone else will buy the home. So what you must be willing to walk away from any deal. Most times when you low ball at precisely 10% the agent on the other end “gets it”, they generaly counter offer in the middle some where, you just might get that home worth 150 that is listed at 135 for 130.

There are always deals

Such deals are possible and in fact anyone can get one! I have done it on the last three homes I purchased. I bought one for just 84K and sold it for 109K just two years later with no improvements other then a deck. I bought another for 135 that was appraised at 159 and sold in three years later for a few pennies under 200K.

My latest find was a house easily worth 170 that was listed for 139 and I paid get this 120! How come, the listing agent was an idiot! The home had a second living area, a huge yard (1/3rd of an acre average lots are 1/10th), and a home office. The listing agent listed the house as a 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage home, brick and vinyl. Nothing more! The guy should have been shot but it was my gain, we offered 115 they countered at 120 and I jumped on it.

The owners were days from having to start paying a second mortgage and I got the place for a song. Honestly there wasn’t another house with all of this going for it under 200K with in 10 miles of it but the buyer had to sell. The house was on a culdesac so it got no drive by traffic and the agent clearly blew the marketing.

So there you go a blueprint for finding the best deal on a home. Will it work in those white hot markets where houses sell in 24 hours? Not usually but generally just outside of those areas there are deals just waiting to be had. Be flexible, consider your options and spend LESS then you can afford. With a little work you can really get a great deal and build a solid investment from day one. Just remember real estate is not a game, you are not in it to be nice or make friends or even help people. You have to be tough, stand your ground and walk away if you need to.

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What I Blow Money On

Part of the benefit of having extra money is the ability to spend some of it. I believe in cutting costs, investing wisely and building wealth and security. Yet I also believe in enjoying life along the way, if not then what is the point? Any of us could die tomorrow so the key is to balance living for today with planning for tomorrow. So what are some of the things I spend more money on then I should or some of the stuff I just buy when I am bored? Here are a few,

• Starbucks Coffee - I will admit it, I am a caffeine fiend. When I made a lot less money Starbucks was a luxuary that I enjoyed once in a while, now I don’t go a day without a Vente Cappuccino or two. This is extravagance, a waste, a senseless spending that I end up with nothing to show for. Still it makes me happy and I have no real debt to worry about any more, I don’t stop investing to fund it and I only pay in cash so I have the money in my pocket each week to cover the expense.

• My Animals - I have dogs, cats and a lot of reptiles. As a child I wanted to be a herpetologist (a biologist who studies reptiles) but the lure of business was too powerful and I never went to college to pursue the biology degree. When I didn’t have much money and was in debt heavily I kept no pets, today I have an abundance of animals around me. I do breed the reptiles and one day they may pay for themselves but for now all the animals are an expense that never returns any money. Yet the dogs and cats bring joy to me and the family and the reptiles allow me to fufil my childhood dream of being a researcher working with snakes.

• Gadgets - I have all kinds of electronic do dads and I buy something new at least every month. Cameras, software, media players, etc. I just love technology, I like seeing what you can do with it, what you can create and what the latest craze is before it hits. Some of the stuff like my Blackberry has a real purpose for work and organization but most is just for fun. I didn’t need a Sony Alpha DSLR but I bought one because I wanted it. I always pay cash for these gadgets but I must admit I blow money on them. Most are never used to turn a profit I just enjoy having them.

Now let’s say I am bored and just want to go out bumping around with my wife to shops and what not. Doing so will almost always result in spending money! We are all human though and just sitting at home counting money can get old and you don’t always want to really plan an activity so “shopping” (our parents window shopped but we seem to have failed to inherit that ability) has become an American past time. Here are some things I have done to allow me the activity with out totally blowing it.

• Silver Coins - I am a huge fan of American Eagle Coins and often during a jaunt out I stop by one of several local coin shops and buy one or three of them. I keep them in plastic tubes and have been doing this past time for about 10 years now. I occasionally buy more numismaticly valuable coins, mostly older silver dollar and silver half dollar coins. The Eagles have a fixed value against the silver market price (at least newer ones do) so they are decent investments. The other coins have a bit of “subjective value” based on both the silver and collector markets combined. Still even they have a basis based on the price of silver. I will never make a mint on this but there is a value to these coins that will grow. So I get to browse, spend money and not just throw it away.

• Houses - I shop for houses all the time and the beauty of this is multiple. There are always countless new model homes to take a look at, walk around in etc. You never impulse buy a home so that is nice, I shop a lot and buy very seldom. The biggest value is I know my real estate market cold, I know exactly what different types of homes in different areas sell for. So I do know a deal when it pops up. This is the best rule I can give you if you want to invest in real estate some day, window shop houses for a year or so first. Record how long those “great deals” take to sell and keep your whits about you. In time you find gems and when you do you will know it.

• Books - I love knowledge and I love to shop for books, both audio and print. To help with my addiction I shop mostly at Half Price Books so I pay less per book then buying new. A used book is no big handicap to reading it so I just can’t see paying full price unless I want a new book. Then here is the best part, some of these go into my home library but others I read, am done with and sell them back to half price books. They generally pay about 20% or what I bought them for.

So there you go some ways I admit to just blowing money and other ways I stave off boredom with shopping that doesn’t just reduce my net worth dollar per dollar.

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My Heros in Business and Investing

If you really want to be successful financially you have to follow the intuitive wisdom of the 12 year old that plays Pop Warner Football. That 12 year old sees himself as Bret Farve or Randy Moss or whoever his favorite player is when he takes the field. In his head he hears the crowd and when he makes the catch, tackle or completes a pass for a second he is that superstar.

When you want to build wealth and success you need to do the same thing. You need your own heroes to follow and model yourself after. Here are some of mine and why I follow their lead.

Donald Trump - I admire Donald Trump for a large number of reasons. His success as an entrepreneur and real estate investor of course speaks for itself. On the personal side, Trump often comes across as a real jerk but that is just who he is. Believe it or not I admire that as well, despite being in the public eye he does not try to make the public happy. He is who he is and if you don’t like it, tough! I respect that a great deal.

Trump is also completely honest with people (this is a big part of why he is considered a jerk) about the way he sees things. I never have felt that Trump is someone with a hidden political agenda, he is a patriot, a success and a tough business person with a world class team around him. Trump has also put great deal of effort into establishing educational programs for real estate investing and other financial education programs.

Richard Branson - Branson is a real entrepreneur and has a life envied by many but experienced by very few. Despite being amoung the richest people in the world though he is remarkably down to earth and even reasonably accessible. When you hear him interviewed you think he could just be a bit of an eccentric British guy that lived next door to you.

He owns Necker Island where he maintains his primary residence which was recently featured as the number one celebrity home ahead of Hugh Hefner and Bill Gates! Yet if you met him in a bar tomorrow he would sit down and have a beer or three with you. He has failed more times then he has succeeded in building companies yet he keeps doing it because he loves being a true entrepreneur.

Warren Buffett - Warren began working in his fathers broakrage firm at the age of 11 and never looked back. Known as “America’s most successful investor” I can’t help but admire him. Buffett employed a three pronged approach

• Generals: undervalued securities that possess margin of safety and meet expected return-to-risk characteristics
• Arbitrages: company events that are not related to broader market changes, such as mergers and acquisitions, liquidation, etc.
• Controls: build sizable holdings, ally with other shareholders or employ proxies to effect changes in companies

This approach has made him one of the richest men in the world but was actually a very “safe approach” to investing.

Jimmy Buffett - No not Warren’s brother and that is no typo either. I am talking about party hardy, parrot head, Margaritaville singing Jimmy Buffett from Mobile Alabama. Jimmy speaks to my fun side, the part of me that takes 15 days off, lays on a beach and just lets everyone else deal with my businesses two times a year. He is my “someday” archetype. The old man I want to be when all my battles have been fought and I fish on the beach and drink rum from a coconut.

There is more to Jimmy though, Mr Jim is rich my friends, very, very rich! He has worked branding magic around the “Margaritaville” theme and now owns bars, merchandising and a premium Tequila label. At the same time he has only done what he loved doing. When he first went to Nashville he was rejected by 18 consecutive record label executives, so he kept playing bars and clubs and being who he was.

The rest is history and now despite not having a top ten record in two decades he still sells out just about every show he does and his fans still want more. There are Buffett fans (Parrot Heads) from 8 - 80 and their numbers continue to grow. Why, Jimmy created an image, a brand and did so by being himself. To me that makes him a very successful business person.

Henry Ford - Henry could never have gotten into college even with a bribe, he did not have the grades, the desire or the “book smarts” for it. Yet he is more associated with the automobile then any of the people that actually invented it. Henry took automation to the extreme and made the assembly line a reality and brought the car to the average American. That one achievement may have had more influence on the wealth and growth of the United States then any other person from his era.

Not content to just make cars though, Henry was a master of efficiency. When suppliers bid on supplying him with engines he required the crates they came in to be made to specific specifications. Wanting his business his suppliers agreed, the crates were then disassembled by his workers and formed the floor boards of the Model T. Despite that he had massive amounts of scrap wood from all the shipping crates so he teamed up with E. G. Kingsford, who was a local real-estate agent, to buy land for a massive wood production and charcoal processing plant. With all the waste in government and business today we could use some guys like Ford around.

So those are my heroes in business! I have others but those are my big ones when it comes to money, building businesses and investing. I suggest you assemble your own heroes list. Be inspired by them, know their stories and utilize that creative visualization children do so well in back yards and school stadiums to reach further then you can on your own.

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